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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 21, 2009 7:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Veneta doesn't 'suck', but it is overrated...

You'd think we'd be getting sick and tired of having to defend the fact that some folks want to critique the posters that critique critiquing. This has got to be about the tenth exchange of significance (ie, more than just a few posts) in which we do this...and I always end up defending the right to make judgements about judgements...it's really not dissimilar to the deep philosophical issue I was alluding to earlier: that is, "post modernity is crap", in a slightly different guise.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Oct 22, 2009 10:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Pardon me....

....but is this the 3:10 to Yuma?

Wait a minute Mr. Conductor - haven't I seen you recently?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 22, 2009 12:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pardon me....

...no, this is the 3:15 to Gila Bend.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Oct 22, 2009 1:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pardon me....

I would like to see Geena Lee Nolin Bend over.

At 3:15, 9:28, hell, just about any time.

And I don't even like blondes that much.

Number 9 below needs no description..........

This post was modified by Mandojammer on 2009-10-22 20:02:20

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 22, 2009 1:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pardon me....

now that's my kind of thread hijack!!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 22, 2009 1:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pardon me....

Well, yes...but, if one is allowed to critique such wonderous things, I would humbly offer that nature generally requires no artificial enhancement...

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Oct 22, 2009 1:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pardon me....

I too was having trouble with the clear violation of Nature's Laws.

Particularly, gravity.

Or perhaps, echoing PMT's sentiment, the manner in which such a law is subverted.

Or not......

Methunked....

This post was modified by Mandojammer on 2009-10-22 20:20:48

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 22, 2009 12:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pardon me....

"Willoughby. This stop is Willoughby!"


"I know where I'd like to be."
'Where's that?"
"A place called Willoughby, a little town I manufactured in a dream."

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Poster: high flow Date: Oct 22, 2009 12:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pardon me....

Ahhhh Willoughby. So serene.

Excellent episode. One of my favorites.

Similar in some ways to my favorite episode which is called "Walking Distance".

http://www.cbs.com/classics/the_twilight_zone/video/video.php?cid=621774886&;pid=eEho0ey9HbofC1HPxA5g50tgQamOcHjx

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 22, 2009 1:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pardon me....

Hey Flow you're a Zoney!

Mirror Image was one of my favourites - very paranoid and creepy.

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/entertainment/watch/v14209791WM2zjkCm


And what was the one about the returning astronauts who vanished from existence one by one?

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Poster: Yankee9 Date: Oct 22, 2009 10:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pardon me....

A Stop At Willoughby is the best Twilight Zone episode of all time IMHO.

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Poster: Jim F Date: Oct 21, 2009 11:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Veneta doesn't 'suck', but it is overrated...

Calling Veneta and Cornell overrated is overrated. And complaining about what's overrated is overrated.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 22, 2009 5:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Veneta doesn't 'suck', but it is overrated...

It seems to me that if its okay to critique critiquing than it is equally okay to critique the critique critiques (it all comes back to the forum about a forum!!). And yes we have been down this road before and I found it equally frustrating that we learn little from this. Take this Veneta subthread for example. Skuzzlebutt states that he can think of several shows from both the spring and fall tours in '72 that are better than Veneta but doesn't name one. So how can one validate his (or hers, although that seems unlikely with a name like skuzzlebutt, no?) judgement? I suspect he is correct (i like 9-21 better personally and really enjoyed the 10-18 show that i listened to for the first time last week with that PITB>drums>DS>Dew>PITB). However I personally can't think of any show, including the ones i mentioned, from '72 that has a better sound quality than Veneta and one can not exclude the effect of sound quality of tapes when ratings were determined and historic shows were considered historic, but I don't think I heard this mentioned at all. Interestingly if you go over to the LMA and click on the most downloaded show on the whole site, the reviews of the sound are very good and the reviews of the music are terrible, so one can not simply look at the overall picture to determine if something is good, bad, overrated or underrated. The "why" it got the rating is essential to determine if the critiques are deserving of a critique. Availability of shows was also likely to be an influence on status. Again in the end I doubt skuzzlebutt or anyone else (with the exception of Dick) would not recommend a newbie to listen to that show or many of the other things that came up as overrated in this thread.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 22, 2009 7:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Veneta doesn't 'suck', but it is overrated...

Of course, I'll support any argument for critiquing ANYTHING, whether it be a simple upfront critique, a critique of a critique, or even a critique of the lack of a critique (recall most everyone critiques those that hold back ANY sim-blance of a critique if they were uncritically present at a particular show they choose to uncritique since their critique skills were checked at the door soon after they ingested the usual mind-altering and critique suppressing drugs of choice).

Unlike some, I see the power of critique as one of the defining human endeavors, and certainly an activity that helps us define ourselves and improve our abilities to evaluate the world around us and thereby our place in it. We all know writing is perhaps the most useful method of self exploration, and in the writing of a critique, in articulating a well examined position of evaluation, I think we force ourselves to think clearly...probably moreso than in any other exercise.

However, I might see more problems with it if my beloved early era was the target of such attempts. I just realized that in all these threads on "over-ratings", no one ever selects 10-12-68 or 12-29-68 or 9-19-70 (although I do recall someone saying that DS from 9-19 wasn't obviously a top five for them...shudder!).

Interesting...I will perhaps overstep in saying that I think this is another line of evidence that the early era really is best, and that even many of the lovers of the mid/late 70s feel they must work harder to defend their own selection of some show from 77 or even 73 relative to any of mine...?

Good morning L! Did you notice that yesterday was fine, but no up to the day before? Suppose good days on the Forum just "happen" and we can't insure it necessarily...just depends on the mix of posters, the mix of topics, and whether Dire is struggling with irregularity again.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 22, 2009 7:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Veneta doesn't 'suck', but it is overrated...

Good Morning to you too, WT!! I enjoyed yesterday although for different reasons than the day before. It brought out a very interesting take from Jerry's Beard, while the silliness of the day before would probably have scared any sane individual from hopping in. Different but entertaining nonetheless.

Your interpretation of the lack of overrated shows from the early era is interesting although there could be another reason that I am sure you don't want to hear. Maybe not enough people care about 10-12-68 or 12-29-68 to bother. Of course I for one do. However I have asked questions about 10-11-68 twice in the last week and did not get a single response that was on that topic. Alternatively it could be that its you old school curmudgeons that pick on those '70s and '80s shows in an attempt to justify your own preferences and by extension own existence.

Hmm, I might have just called Miss D. a curmudgeon. Nah she listens up to '74.

Regardless i am really enjoying this little gem from the curmudgeon era

http://www.archive.org/details/gd67-10-22.sbd.miller.18101.sbeok.shnf

Excellent NPC although the Lovelight is cut. Jerry is also shredding the TIFTOO!! Still has the old lyrics. Holy Crap, this is the first one!! Happy Birthday TIFTOO!!

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Oct 22, 2009 12:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Veneta doesn't 'suck', but it is overrated...

Just cranked up That's It For The Other One from TDIH and its wonderful. Jerry freaks out nicely before the verse and Phil is symphonic and syncopating beautifully. They come round in a circle and off we go into the land of ego-death. You can feel the quaking, shivering, pulsating nature of this psychedelic ball of energy. Nice.

I've had this recording for some time but haven't appreciated it in a while and coming back to it makes it even sweeter.

Veneta 72 has psychedelia pouring off of it.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 22, 2009 2:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Veneta doesn't 'suck', but it is overrated...

DP: others will moan at the repetition of it, BUT if you want to hear THE OOne, go directly to 12-29-68, track six, right here...

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 22, 2009 8:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Veneta doesn't 'suck', but it is overrated...

LOL - yeah if only a few old farts are clinging to '68 how much critiquing will there be.

On the other hand how can you overrate recordings that you're simply glad exist at all?

I just don't listen to enough old stuff to be critical and almost always enjoy it when I do listen - although sometimes it takes a while for my ears to adjust for the poorer recordings - but there is usually gold under the dirt.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 22, 2009 8:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Veneta doesn't 'suck', but it is overrated...

"old school curmudgeons that pick on those '70s and '80s shows in an attempt to justify your own preferences and by extension own existence."

Ah, the old "your attack is merely an indication of your own weakness with respect to precisely what you attack!" critique of our critique-y-ness! Absolutely Freudian, eh?

But, since I said it first (ie, when I said 70s folks are insecure since the 70s are over-rated, they realize it, and leap to the defense), this is only so much "I know you are but what am I!" and that juvenile defense is really only credible when SDH uses it...

As to how many of us exist, it does seem to me that a fair number of posters along the lines of J'sBeard fess up every so often...maybe I just notice them more, but it seems to happen regularly.

Wonder where Miss D is these days...? I may have scared her off with all my attn, as it may have been a bit too creepy for her...however, don't think I didn't notice you know quite abit about her what with that comment about 74 and all...you aren't taking notes, are you?

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 22, 2009 7:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: hijack time



http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/150407/?searchterm=grateful+dead

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 22, 2009 1:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Veneta doesn't 'suck', but it is overrated...

So basically this whole thread is overrated? Or maybe underrated?

I'm confused